Breaking Down The Walls That Divide Us: Eric Costanzo, Yana Sherdis, & Julie Mirlicourtois
Eric Costanzo: God will bring people across your path who can encourage you and help you feel part of a community, but there’s no human being who can provide the love and care and the confidence that the Lord can give. We just have to seek Him.
Breaking Down The Walls That Divide Us: Eric Costanzo, Yana Sherdis, & Julie Mirlicourtois – Episode #384
Narrator: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. God’s love knows no borders, boundaries, or limitations. It reaches every person, regardless of origin or language. When we strive to follow Jesus’s greatest commandment, “Love one another” [John 13:34], we can begin to break down the walls that often divide us.
This week, we speak to pastor Eric Costanzo and one of his church members, Yana Sherdis, who have dedicated their lives to serving and supporting refugees and international families through their church’s powerful outreach program. We’ll also speak with the director of a new docuseries ACROSS, Julie Mirlicourtois who shares the inspiring faith of Christian asylum seekers from Central America.
Eric: My name is Eric Costanzo. I am married to Rebecca, we have four wonderful children, and I am a pastor. I pastor South Tulsa Baptist Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Yana Sherdis: My name is Yana Sherdis. I am a Ukrainian. I moved to the United States seven years ago. I’m married, I have a husband and two sons.
Who Can We Help?
Eric: Well back in 2016, I came to South Tulsa Baptist Church and really just had my eyes on pretty quickly, Who will be the folks in our community that our church could help make some important connections to?
And it became pretty quickly evident that in our neighborhood we have lots of refugees and folks from all over the world for various reasons that are in our school district and not far away. So we really just began asking the Lord to give us some opportunities to meet those neighbors and to figure out ways that we could serve them, we could welcome them and visit their homes and help them in school and things along those lines.
That started with one family from Syria and then a couple of families from Myanmar. And then before you knew it, we had a full-fledged English second language program and programs in the local school. And we were very fortunate that we were able to hire some excellent teachers who are state certified, and most of them have their master’s degree in teaching English as a second language.
We chose some really good classroom spaces in our church building so that folks would have easy access, easy parking, and a really nice space to learn. You know, at one point, between ten and fifteen percent of Tulsa County were foreign born. We do have a larger percentage of refugees and international families. And at times—just for reference—our ESL classes [English as a Second Language] will have between thirty and forty countries represented in the classes.
We also now for several years have had sewing classes, sewing and tailoring classes, for refugee women. That has been a tremendous blessing. The women are able to learn how to make items by hand, everything from just simple things they could use at home, like pajama pants for their kids, to things that they can sell, and we actually go to trade shows and set up booths and let them sell their items.
And some of our ladies get so good, or they’ve already come to us with sewing skills, and we’re able to help them gain employment through local companies where they do sewing. So over the last almost seven years, it’s just really grown into a tremendous outreach into our international community.
Yana’s Story
Yana: We moved to the United States seven years ago in the refugee status. Therefore, we were granted all necessary documents upon arrival, such as a Social Security number, work authorization, even health insurance for the kids. I believe our move was the easiest possible. We were very lucky. Back in Ukraine, I worked as a production manager in a video production company, and I also ran a nonprofit.
We were believers and attended church in Ukraine, but when we moved here, we were looking for a church [that was] an American church. We didn’t want to attend our ethnic group church because we wanted to integrate into the new society as soon as possible.
Eric: We actually met Yana when she came to the United States, and I came to Tulsa. I met her for the first time in one of those English classes, but then Yana became a part of our citizenship classes and she and her family are honestly just a wonderful part of our church. I’ve had the honor of being a part of baptizing her children, and her husband is a wonderful man.
Yana: After moving to a different country, very many people have to start their career from scratch. I wasn’t an exception. It took me several years to understand where I wanted to implement my experience, but in my current job, I work with teenagers, the foreign teenagers who just moved to the United States. At school, they’re experiencing a lot of trauma, also a language barrier, but they are placed in the school and they have to survive, find their position, socialize with their peers, and live their own life. I advocate for them. I help them with their homework. So my job is to help them on this path.
Eric: Yana and her family are a great example of just this wonderful Christian family that the Lord brought to us from the other side of the world, and now we get to serve together in lots of really incredible ways.
A Place of Unity
Eric: You know, it’s one thing to teach English, it’s another thing to really start being welcomed into homes and to help folks who come from different religious backgrounds feel like the church is a safe place.
The biggest thing that made a difference was when folks who were from our church and had been there for a while really started to interact with their refugee and immigrant neighbors and they realized who they were, and they saw them, just who they truly are. Our church is a very loving, kind, welcoming church. It’s been that way long before I was the pastor. And so it was a very natural fit.
“The biggest thing that made a difference was when folks who were from our church and had been there for a while really started to interact with their refugee and immigrant neighbors and they realized who they were, and they saw them, just who they truly are.” – Eric Costanzo
And at times when spiritual conversations came up, to navigate those well—it’s hard to say, we made some mistakes early on, just with some folks that we unintentionally maybe stepped on toes from a religious or cultural standpoint and had to kind of back that relationship up and try to find a healthy starting place.
But over time, I think that the church has fully embraced this ministry and many of our folks are involved in it. And we have a lot of representation now in our membership and even in our leadership. Yana has had the opportunity, as an example, to serve in leadership positions, and that helps us not make so many of those mistakes.
We also get to connect with people who are not Christians, and we have folks from Muslim backgrounds, many of them especially now with so many Afghans who came to Tulsa. We’ve got folks from Eastern religions, we’ve got folks from no religion, and we have Catholics and Protestants together in our church a lot now. So we’ve seen so many different types of success that some of the things that we really just try to measure are, Is this family flourishing and are they continually progressing forward? And not only forward, but more into the center of the community and not always feeling like they’re on the margins?
The Church As A Harbor
Eric: I’ve thought about this for years, as the church being a harbor. When anyone is looking for a safe place or a refuge—it could be because of physical circumstances or emotional circumstances or legitimate issues of safety or spiritual issues—the church can be that kind of safe harbor, just like a ship comes to the harbor so that it might find safe passage. And it might be, you know, refueled or filled or cared for if it’s got damage or it has faced any sort of issues out at sea. But ultimately, the goal is to send the ship back out. So the church can be a welcoming, wonderful place, but also with regard to mission, we have the opportunity whether folks come to Christ and surrender their lives to Him or whether when they come to us they already are believers that we welcome and we equip, but we also can send back out. And I’m thankful just to see how the Lord has brought unity to this effort for our church.
“When anyone is looking for a safe place or a refuge—it could be because of physical circumstances or emotional circumstances or legitimate issues of safety or spiritual issues—the church can be that kind of safe harbor, just like a ship comes to the harbor so that it might find safe passage.” – Eric Costanzo
I think daily devotionals and the very practical ways that Jesus Calling and the many resources connected to it have made so many different things available for people from all walks of life would be very well received [when] put in the hands of families for them to use in their home spiritual life.
Yana: Jesus Listens, January 8th.
God, my Refuge,
Help me not to dwell on the past. I can learn from the past, but I don’t want it to be my focus. I know I cannot undo things that have already occurred, no matter how hard I try. So I come to You and pour out my heart—remembering that You are my refuge, worthy of my trust at all times.
One way I can build up my confidence in You is to tell You frequently: “I trust You, Lord.” Speaking these affirmations of trust brightens my day immensely—blowing away dark clouds of worry.
You are always doing a new thing! So I’ll be on the lookout for all that You’re accomplishing in my life. Please open the eyes of my mind and heart so I can see the many opportunities You’ve placed along my path. And protect me from falling into such a routine way of living that I see only the same old things— missing the newness.
I’m learning that You can make a way where there appears to be no way. With You all things are possible!
In Your amazing Name, Jesus,
Amen
Narrator: To learn more about South Tulsa Baptist Church and their outreach programs, please visit www.southtulsa.org.
Stay tuned to Julie Mirlicourtois’ story after a brief message.
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Our next guest is editor, director, and podcaster Julie Mirlicourtois. Julie left her successful career working in television programming for the Oprah Winfrey Show and CBS News to give more attention to her family and her faith. Julie gives us an inside look at her new docuseries called ACROSS, which follows Chrisitan asylum seekers from Central America.
Julie Mirlicourtois: Hi, I’m Julie Mirlicourtois. First and foremost, I’m a believer, though I didn’t meet Jesus until my mid-thirties. Jesus Calling was actually my very first Christian devotional that I still treasure so much to this day. I’m the wife and mother of two kids. Sophie is eleven and Charlie is eight. And today, I’m the executive producer of a podcast called Maybe God that tackles people’s toughest questions about faith and humanity, and I’m also the producer/director of a brand new documentary series about Christian asylum seekers from Central America called ACROSS.
From Career to Calling
My perspective on faith has completely changed. My father, who grew up in the French Catholic Church back in the fifties, he was an altar boy. And so by the time I came around, he really despised religion. He wouldn’t have me baptized. And honestly, he had me convinced that religion equated to brainwashing. But for some weird reason, starting at a really young age—around the time of my parents’ divorce—I prayed every single night. I prayed before bed. I prayed in churches we’d visit in Europe, but I had no idea who I was talking to. And I think every prayer would start with, “God, if you’re there, I don’t know who You are. I don’t know if You’re listening, but if You’re there…” And so I see that now and I think I had this gift of faith all along. I think I could feel God so clearly, I just had no clue who He was.
“I think I had this gift of faith all along. I think I could feel God so clearly, I just had no clue who He was.” – Julie Mirlicourtois
When I was thirty-five, I had just given birth to my second child. I was working at Oprah, and it became clear to me that I needed to change my priority from work to my family. I had a full time job, I had a full time nanny, I was traveling nonstop, and it wasn’t the life that I wanted for my kids. That’s when I was in the middle of one of those sessions at work, and I heard a voice as clear as day say to me, “Go home and tell your husband you’re moving to Texas.”
My husband, Ryan, had been wanting to move to Texas for as long as I knew him, but I’d always resisted because I thought my career that I’d worked so hard for would be over. And that’s what everyone was telling me, too, but that night I went home and I told Ryan, “We’re moving to Texas.” And everyone thought I was crazy.
A Church’s Impact
When I first got to Houston, I was looking for a school for my three year old daughter at the time, and a friend recommended St. Luke’s United Methodist, and I thought to myself, Well, there’s a really long waitlist for this school, so maybe if we join the church, we might be able to move up the waitlist a little faster. And so I asked her about her services and I thought to myself, There’s no harm in my kids having a church home. It seems like a good thing to do. And so I asked her and she said, “Oh, there’s this new church that just started in our gym. It’s called the Story Church. And they’re specifically for people who don’t have a lot of church experience or just want to be very casual on Sundays.”
I think the following Sunday, we packed the kids and walked into the gym, and it was one of the most intimidating moments of my life because here we are walking into this church service and they were singing “Nothing but the Blood of Jesus” and some people had their hands raised. And it was just so foreign to me.
I was introduced to Jesus and baptized soon after. It kind of felt like I had been talking to this person on the other side of a closed door my whole life, wondering if He was real or just part of my imagination, and then He revealed Himself to me in so many undeniable ways.
“It kind of felt like I had been talking to this person on the other side of a closed door my whole life, wondering if He was real or just part of my imagination, and then He revealed Himself to me in so many undeniable ways.” – Julie Mirlicourtois
After the grace and the truth of Christ completely transformed my life and really healed a lot of those childhood wounds that I had never fully healed from, I knew that I had to spend the rest of my life reaching people with the truth about the gospel. I had believed for so long these lies, lies I’d been told about Christians, about Jesus, and I really became determined to cut through the noise of culture and politics and reach people in those secular audiences where I once was.
“I had believed for so long these lies, lies I’d been told about Christians, about Jesus, and I really became determined to cut through the noise of culture and politics and reach people in those secular audiences where I once was.” – Julie Mirlicourtois
Breaking Barriers With Faith Stories
I got a call from a former Oprah colleague of mine. She had met this pastor in San Antonio who was working with asylum seekers, and she said, “I know you’ve got this Christian podcast and I think you’ve got to go right out and interview this guy.” And this was at a time when a lot of people were coming across the border, San Antonio was overwhelmed by the number of asylum seekers crossing the U.S.-Mexico border into Texas. So I went with my recording equipment to San Antonio, and I was still pretty new in my faith.
And there was this woman named Santos, who I met on that first day, and at that moment she was fasting and she was praying around the clock because she had been separated from her ten year old son.
I was just so incredibly moved by her faith and everything she was doing to get her son back from a spiritual perspective, while all of these Americans were like trying to make phone calls and figure out where he was and all this stuff, she just looked at me and said, “God promised me I’ll be with my son again, and I know it’s going to be okay.” And sure enough, I think it was three weeks later on her birthday, she was reunited with her son when nobody thought it was possible. And so when I witnessed the deep, unwavering faith of Santos and all the other asylum seekers I met there, I thought, We always kind of hear in the mainstream media about sort of the trauma they’ve been through and how they’re victims, but why aren’t we talking about their incredible faith that has so much to offer us?
Following the lives of these asylum seekers for the past two and a half, three years, I’ve never understood more of what the Bible tells us when it says “Blessed are the poor.” Their faith has enriched and enhanced my faith and countless other people so much. It’s taught me to shift my perspective that the hardships are there for a reason. I can’t just make my life and my kids’ lives in this comfortable place. I have to really thank God for the good and the bad and keep growing through it.
“Following the lives of these asylum seekers for the past two and a half, three years, I’ve never understood more of what the Bible tells us when it says ‘Blessed are the poor.’ Their faith has enriched and enhanced my faith and countless other people so much. It’s taught me to shift my perspective that the hardships are there for a reason. I can’t just make my life and my kids’ lives in this comfortable place. I have to really thank God for the good and the bad and keep growing through it.” – Julie Mirlicourtois
Narrator: To learn more about Julie Mirlicourtois, check out her new docuseries, ACROSS.
If you’d like to hear more stories about spreading love to the community around us, check out our interview with Anthony Ray Hinton.
Next week: Father James Martin
Next time on the Jesus Calling Podcast, we’ll hear from Father James Martin, who shares about the beauty of the advent season, and how we can follow the example set in the Bible from Lazarus, where he left his burdens behind when Jesus brought him back to life.
Father James Martin: There’s something that is keeping you unfree, bound, and the key is to know that God is calling you to let that die, to leave it behind in the tomb, and to hear God say to you, “Come forth.”
