Finding More by Letting Go: Niki Hardy & Danette Crawford
This episode mentions suicide and may be triggering for some listeners.
Niki Hardy: Many people have shame and fear around their questions, and I take time to debunk the myths around our doubts and questions that when they take their questions to God, they find intimacy that we’re all craving all along.
Finding More by Letting Go: Niki Hardy & Danette Crawford – Episode #470
Narrator: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. This week, we hear from Niki Hardy—a writer, speaker, and coach who brings honesty and hope to life’s most difficult moments. Niki has weathered seasons of cancer, grief, burnout, and questions of faith. After transitioning from a corporate career into nonprofit and ministry work, she came to believe that life doesn’t have to be pain-free to be full.
Later in the episode, we’ll hear from Danette Crawford, founder of Joy Ministries. Danette shares her journey through heartbreak, single motherhood, and the challenges of starting over. She reflects on how joy is more than a feeling—it’s a deep-rooted strength—and encourages listeners to embrace service to others as a path to a more fulfilling life.
Let’s begin with Niki’s story.
Niki Hardy: I’m Niki Hardy, and I’m an author, speaker, and coach who—as you can probably tell—isn’t from North Carolina. We moved here about twenty years ago from England. My husband and I both came to faith in the first year that we were married. And since then, I’ve left corporate life, been to seminary, moved continents, planted churches, started businesses and nonprofits, and even navigated loss, cancer, church hurt, and painful uncertainty. And through all that, I’ve come to believe God loves a cheerful doubter.
“I’ve left corporate life, been to seminary, moved continents, planted churches, started businesses and nonprofits, and even navigated loss, cancer, church hurt, and painful uncertainty. And through all that, I’ve come to believe God loves a cheerful doubter.” – Niki Hardy
Life Doesn’t Have to Be Pain Free to Be Full
I didn’t grow up in a relationship with God. I would have said that I was Christian with a lowercase c, not a capital C, because I didn’t really have a relationship with Jesus. But I came to faith, left work, went to the missionary field, planted churches, and that in itself was a lot of change, but then I lost my mom to cancer. And then I was diagnosed just six weeks after losing my sister, Jo, to cancer. And that led to a whole set of questions and doubts and God’s calling to share my story.
When I share my story of losing my mum and my sister to cancer and then being diagnosed myself—then followed by my husband’s burnout and breakdown on top of all the normal stresses of life and raising kids and all the scary decisions that they make, even I’m shocked at how hard things have been and how they’ve stacked up. My cancer wasn’t lung cancer like my mum and my sister’s. But mine was rectal cancer, which brings a whole other set of issues.
Being a Brit, I was very much, keep calm, carry on, survive… until surviving was all I was doing. I thought coping meant hunkering down, being strong. And then I got to this point where I felt like I was living a life that I hadn’t signed up for, a life that wasn’t meant to be how I had planned it to be. And I felt like I had missed out on the full, abundant life that Jesus had promised us. And I was simply living in the storms and there didn’t seem to be a way through and out.
When I was going through treatment for cancer, I didn’t know if my storm would ever end, or if like my mom and my sister, I would lose my battle with cancer. And so I wondered, Did that mean that Jesus’ abundant, full life wasn’t for me? And I realized, No, that’s not true and it’s not actually theologically correct. It’s possible to experience the full, abundant life right in the midst of all we’re enduring and to thrive, not just survive. That’s when I realized that life doesn’t have to be pain-free to be full.
“It’s possible to experience the full, abundant life right in the midst of all we’re enduring and to thrive, not just survive. Life doesn’t have to be pain-free to be full.” – Niki Hardy
We often equate the full, abundant life with a happy, skippy, healthy, and wealthy life. And in fact, that abundant life that Jesus promises us is actually one of intimacy and connection and comfort and strength with Him. And so leaning into God and talking to Him and bringing Him my questions and figuring out that my questions aren’t something that phase God or worry Him, but they’re actually something positive and my faith’s greatest strength, not its biggest weakness—that’s when I realized that I could actually go closer to God through all the hard questions. And that if I chat with God, I might not find the answers that I’m looking for, but I will find the relationship and the intimacy that I am really after.
“If I chat with God, I might not find the answers that I’m looking for, but I will find the relationship and the intimacy that I am really after.” – Niki Hardy
Talking to God Through Our Hard Moments
We all go through times when life isn’t going as we expected or as we hoped, and sometimes that’s just confusing or annoying and frustrating, but it can also be deeply, deeply painful and life-altering. And when someone’s in that place, my encouragement is always the same. It’s to lean into God, to chat with Him, and not turn away. Because when we keep talking, even if we’re ranting and raging if necessary, we’re less likely to give into the temptation that I admit I have done on a number of occasions, to say to God, “Well, if you’re not talking to me, God, I’m not talking to you.”
And in our hardest moments, even when we can’t sense His presence or His comfort, and it seems like He’s off helping other people who are more spiritual than us, we can rely on our past experiences of Him. We can trust He’s there, even when we can’t feel Him. And we can keep those lines of communication open and we can say, “God, can we chat about this?” And we can reply to Jesus’ invitation where—I love it in the message for Matthew 11:28—He says, “Come to me, all of you who are exhausted and burnt out on religion. Come to me, walk with me, talk with me, and learn the unforced rhythms of grace and live lightly and freely.” And I imagine us on the dusty roads of Galilee on our way to Jerusalem, maybe, with Jesus. And He’s saying, “Come on, let’s walk, let’s talk, let’s do this together, let’s stay in conversation.”
When we are going through times when either life isn’t going as we hoped or expected and it’s just annoying and frustrating or when it’s deeply, deeply painful and life-altering, it’s in that place of walking and talking and chatting with God that we find the peace in our hard moments, that we find even though we might be panicking, there is peace and comfort in there as well.
“When we are going through times when either life isn’t going as we hoped or expected and it’s just annoying and frustrating or when it’s deeply, deeply painful and life-altering, it’s in that place of walking and talking and chatting with God that we find the peace in our hard moments.” – Niki Hardy
God Loves a Cheerful Doubter
I love to say that God loves a cheerful doubter, and so many people can relate to the doubter or questioning part of that because they feel disappointed or disillusioned or confused and they have questions for God about the things that they’re going through or why He’s not answering their prayers or seems to be on mute. But when I say cheerful doubter, what I mean by that is really that this place of doubting can be such a hope-filled, positive fuel for moving us closer to God, for growing our relationship with Him and strengthening our relationship.
And we can all get our knickers in a twist a little bit because Jesus said, “Don’t doubt.” He said, “Don’t doubt, have great faith. Oh you of little faith, why did you doubt?” And I think what we’ve done—whether it’s intentionally or unintentionally—is heard those words of Jesus with an authoritarian and a condemning voice in a kind of, “Don’t doubt, have faith. Why did you doubt?” Like He’s cross with us. But when we hear that with the loving tone of a Father who wants us to have the best of Him and the best for our life, and we hear it as a, “Don’t doubt. Have faith, I’m right here.” When we can respond and reply to Jesus’s invitation to the weary and the heavy laden to come to Him, that’s when we can start to get comfortable with living in this space of thinking, Actually, my doubts are a positive force for good in my faith. Yes, my questions hold power, but not to destroy my faith, to strengthen it. And they can be my faith’s superpower, not its kryptonite. And we love that God is knowable, but we also have to reconcile and live in the mystery that He’s also unknowable.
“We love that God is knowable, but we also have to reconcile and live in the mystery that He’s also unknowable.” – Niki Hardy
And so by changing how we hear that tone of Jesus when He says, “Don’t doubt, but have great faith,” that does a lot to help us get comfortable with living in this space of being a cheerful doubter, of living in the mystery, and chatting with God through it all. And we can see our questions not as the beginning of the end of our faith, but as the end of the beginning and the start of something deeper and more intimate and dare I say even fun and enjoyable.
Connecting With God in the Sacredness of Creation
I read Jesus Calling nearly every day throughout my cancer journey. And it was such a great tool to help me get into His Word, hear His voice, and feel His presence when I didn’t have the energy or the capacity to read great chunks of the Word or hear His voice for myself.
How I pray with God varies enormously. Sometimes I will be sitting in the same spot on my sofa with a devotional and my Bible open on my knees. More often than not, I’m on the trails and I’m chatting to God as I walk the dog. And I find that God often speaks to me through His creation. I often say that He uses His creation as mentor, message, and mirror. And I will see something and say, “Well, what are you showing me through this, God?” And I find that it’s in nature that I can be still and know that He is God a lot more than when I’m actually sitting still on my sofa.
When we’re in a season of grief and uncertainty, it’s so important we stay grounded and connected to Jesus. It’s tempting to turn away and feel like He’s ignoring us or doesn’t love us. It’s not always easy to know how to chat with God and hear and discern what He has to say for us. So the things that help me stay grounded and close to Jesus, whether I’m in a season of my life where everything is wonderful or in a season when everything is hard, are things like reading His Word. And again, it doesn’t have to be long. It doesn’t to be complicated
And also I find that moving my body and getting into nature to feel His presence and connect with Him in the sacredness of His creation also helps me stay grounded in Whose I am and who He is. And then taking time to listen for what He’s saying to us through journaling, prayer time, maybe if you’re a painter or you enjoy gardening, that’s a great way to stay connected and grounded.
This is from Jesus Listens, March 16th:
Sovereign God,
I need to give up the illusion of being in control of my life. When things are going smoothly, it’s easy for me to feel as if I’m the one in charge. Yet the longer I perceive myself as my own master, and the more comfortable I become in this role, the more at risk I am. Help me to trust in You at all times—pouring out my heart to You, for You are my Refuge. Thank You for using adversity to set me free from the illusion of being in control.
When my circumstances and my future are full of uncertainties, I can turn to You and take refuge in You. I want to find my security in knowing You, the Master who is sovereign over the storms of my life—over everything!
In Your great Name, Jesus,
Amen
Narrator: To learn more about Niki, please visit www.nikihardy.com, and be sure to check out her book, God, Can We Chat?, available at your favorite retailer.
Stay tuned to Danette Crawford’s story after a brief message.
JESUS CALLING: STORIES OF FAITH Returns for Season 4!
Hey everyone, this is Faith Broussard Cade, your host for the fourth season of Jesus Calling: Stories of Faith on UPTV. We’re so excited to bring you inspiring stories of people from all walks of life, who have turned to their faith in times of struggle, and in times of joy. We’re going to hear from some extraordinary guests this season, including Julie Chen Moonves, who you might know as the host of Big Brother. We’ll also be joined by NFL Hall of Famer Terry Bradshaw and Light Heavyweight Champion boxer Andre Ward, GRAMMY award winning gospel singer BeBe Winans, the world renowned Italian tenor Andrea Bocelli, and actress Taraji P. Henson, in addition to many others. And of course, you’ll get to hear more about me and my story, too. I can’t wait to see you there. Stay tuned for the new season coming soon on UPTV!
Our next guest is Danette Crawford, an author, speaker, and the founder of Joy Ministries, a nonprofit serving single mothers and families in need. After facing unexpected challenges as a new mom, Danette made a choice to forgive, which opened up a way forward for her life.
Danette Crawford: Well hi, my name is Danette Crawford, and I am so blessed to be the founder of Joy Ministries and Danette Crawford Ministries. So we have a television program called Joy with Danette Crawford, and the different books that I write, all media is done out of Danette Crawford Ministries.
I believed in God all of my life. I prayed, my family took me to a church, but I never knew Jesus as my Savior. And at seventeen years old, I walked into a full gospel church. I was like, This pastor is preaching all about me. Somebody must have told him about me. That’s when I found out it was the Holy Spirit and that’s how the Holy Spirit works. So I gave my life to Jesus. Then at nineteen, I started as the youth pastor at that church and began traveling at the age of twenty-one, and I’ve been traveling as an evangelist ever since.
Abandoned in Our Biggest Hour of Need
I had been traveling as an evangelist for quite a few years. I met a man at my home church here in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and had my pastor’s blessing. I’d been married for three years.
And five days before I delivered my daughter, we were driving to a picnic and my husband said to me some devastating words. He said that he had planned on leaving me and the only reason that he had stayed with me was because I was pregnant. All of these devastating things went through my mind because my doctor was here, all of my family was hours and hours away. The shock of it just made me numb. And the only thing I could do was cry and think, I don’t want to be here, having my baby alone.
I had been in full-time ministry, I was like, How am I gonna tell people this? And then being nine months pregnant, all of the emotions, all of the hormonal changes that you go through, and it was my first baby, so I wasn’t an expert at this. It was quite devastating.
I thought for a number of years at different times, Why is this happening to me? Why did this happen to me? So many times, what happens is when you have done all of the right things, when you have been obedient to the Lord, when you have waited and you have done the right things and we go through challenging times, we don’t understand that. God began to share with me, “Danette, you have to understand that you don’t have to understand.”
Making the Choice to Forgive
Proverbs 3:5 and 6 says, “Trust in the Lord with all of your heart. Lean not to your own understanding.” Stop trying to understand it. Don’t lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge God, and He’ll direct your path. I had to go back and lean on the facts of what I knew. I knew that God had always brought me through before. No, I had never been in situations and circumstances like this before, but in every devastating time, God had always brought me through. And then as time went along, the Lord began to say to me, “Danette, people have choices and people have decisions. Even God’s children, Adam and Eve, they had choices to make and they didn’t make the right choices.” And God says, “I want you to continue to go forward making choices.” I had to make the choice to forgive. I had to make the choice to go forward. I had made the choice to rise up and take my responsibility of caring for my newborn daughter. I had to get up out of my mess.
“I had to make the choice to forgive. I had to make the choice to go forward. I had made the choice to rise up and take my responsibility of caring for my newborn daughter. I had to get up out of my mess.” – Niki Hardy
Every day, I had to set a goal. And in the beginning, for many months, my big goal was to get out of bed, to take a shower, and put my makeup on. You have to make a goal to go forward, and not just go on, but to move forward. Too many people just move on. Then they get in another situation or circumstance. But we have to move forward, and I set goals for myself. I had to be determined to go forward one step of obedience at a time, and I could not look too far down the road. I had to look at my responsibilities for this day, and I had to say, “Okay, Lord, I need to do this to take care of my baby. I need to do this to take care of myself. I need to do this to make sure that my mortgage is paid.” I had to lean into God to do that. And it was literally one step of obedience at a time, making a goal for this day, being determined, I’m not going to quit in this pit, I’m going to go forward by the help and the grace of God.
I’ve been through many other things since that time. My husband, after he left, a couple years later committed suicide. And you feel like you’re kind of getting back to normal, the new normal, and it rocked our boat. And I learned that joy was not just a feeling, but it was a deep-rooted strength in my relationship with God. Different storms will come. But just like Paul, when he set sail to Rome, the boat was destroyed, but his life and all that were on the boat made it out. Why? Because God was with them through the storm. So we need to realize that when things change—because things will change fast—we can hang on to the truth of God’s Word. And we can hang on to our deep-rooted faith and trust.
“We need to realize that when things change—because things will change fast—we can hang on to the truth of God’s Word. And we can hang on to our deep-rooted faith and trust.” – Danette Crawford
That’s why we’ve got to have the Word of God in us. We don’t wait until we’re in the midst of a storm to tap into the Word of God. We feed on the Word of truth. We know the Word, we meditate on the Word day and night, and get it in our spirit so when we go through challenging times, that Word will rise up and we can hang on to that.
As a single mom, I didn’t have a lot of time. I had a lot of responsibility and very little time. What I love about Jesus Calling, what I love about devotionals is that it is narrowing it down to give the readers a power punch every single day. So if you just have three minutes, if you have four minutes, five minutes for you to meditate on the Word throughout the day…
We know the joy of salvation, but it’s when we’re tested, it’s when we go through situations and circumstances that really shake us and test our faith and test our joy that we are faced with the decision. I had to make the decision that I was going to get my happy back. I was going to jumpstart my joy every day, I was gonna meditate the Word, declaring the Word, stop talking about how bad I had it, stop talking about all the things that I didn’t have, and let a grateful heart rise up in me, an attitude of gratitude, thanking the Lord for all that I did have.
“It’s when we go through situations and circumstances that really shake us and test our faith and test our joy that we are faced with the decision. I had to make the decision that I was going to get my happy back.” – Danette Crawford
Turning Our Eyes Off Ourselves and Toward Others
When we’re going through devastating things, it’s very easy to feel sorry for ourselves. And the Lord said to me one day, “Danette, I want you to get your eyes off of yourself. I want to keep your eyes on Me and your heart on the needs of My people.” And I was like, “Well, what do you mean?” And He showed me this subsidized housing neighborhood and there were single moms over there that did not know how they were going to feed their kids, and suddenly everything changed for me. I didn’t have food for me, I didn’t have food for my daughter, and I had to get my eyes off of myself. So I took what little groceries I did have and I went over, I took my daughter in her little carrier, and I went and I started knocking on doors, ministering to these single moms. And I can tell you when you get your eyes off of yourself, it really changes things in perspective because we send out invitations, whether it’s text messages or phone calls or spreading the word about how bad we have it. That doesn’t do anything. But when you keep your eyes on the Lord and you reach out to other people—because there’s always someone that’s hurting worse than you. There’s always somebody that’s going through more than you. When you are determined to get your eyes off of yourself and go minister to others, trust me, joy will spring up in you. Focus forward, and go be a blessing to somebody else.
“When you are determined to get your eyes off of yourself and go minister to others, trust me, joy will spring up in you. Focus forward, and go be a blessing to somebody else.” – Danette Crawford
I had more than these women had because I already knew Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I knew Him as my provider. These were moms that didn’t have the Lord in their life. They didn’t know that Jesus was a Father to the fatherless. They didn’t know that God would provide all of your needs, that we could say, “Lord, give me this day my daily bread.” And so that’s what I began to do. It was what I call a crazy faith instruction from the Lord and it brought me through. And today we’re still doing it, twenty-three community outreaches. It all started one step of obedience at a time, of me getting my eyes off of myself and being a blessing to someone else.
I just want to encourage the listeners that no matter what they’re going through, their situation and their circumstance is not their final destination unless they make choices to stay parked right there in the pit of pain, the pit of disappointment, the pit of unhealthy broken relationships. But when they choose to hang on to the rope of hope, which is the Word of God, they can come out. God has a wonderful, healthy, beautiful life for them, for their children. But they have to do their hard work. They have to make right choices. They have to pay the price to move forward and not just move on. And I know that as they pray, as they tap into God’s presence and His Word, God will give them the grace and the strength to do just what I have done. And I can honestly say the Lord has blessed me so much that it’s mind-blowing what He’s allowed me to do for the kingdom of God, what He has done for my daughter and I. Just keep moving forward, because God is a good God and He has so many amazing things ahead for your future.
Jesus Listens, December 23rd:
Immanuel,
You are God with us-at all times. This promise from Your Word provides a solid foundation for my Joy. Sometimes I try to pin my pleasure to temporary things, but Your Presence with me is eternal blessing. I rejoice that You, my Savior, have promised You will never leave me.
I don’t want to look down on the temporary pleasures You provide, but I do need to accept their limitations-their inability to quench the thirst of my soul. Please help me remember that my search for lasting Joy will fall unless I make You the ultimate goal of my quest.
In Your joyful Name, Jesus,
Amen
Narrator: To learn more about Danette Crawford, visit www.joyministriesonline.org. And be sure to check out her new book, The Power of Joy for Women: A 365-Day Devotional, at your favorite retailer.
If you’d like to hear more stories about finding more by letting go, check out our interview with Father James Martin.
Next week: Erin Leigh Nelson
Next time on the Jesus Calling Podcast, we’ll hear from Erin Leigh Nelson, the founding executive director of Jessica’s House, a grief support center. Through wave after wave of personal tragedy in her own life, Erin found a powerful new mission to help others heal through heartbreak.
Erin Leigh Nelson: I felt God just lean in and say to me, “Your faith has always come from Me, I’ve always been with you, and it’s okay for you to not trust Me right now because I’m right here.” And over time, my faith actually began to rebuild in a new way, more alive than before.
