DawnCheré Wilkerson: I’ve discovered that my little surrendered to a faithful God is so much more than I could ever dream. I think about the little boy who just gave his fish and his loaves, and it fed thousands. God, I don’t have enough, but put in Your hands, You’ll do more than I could ever dream.

Trusting God in the “Not Yet” and the “What If”: DawnCheré Wilkerson & Erin Hicks Moon – Episode #465

Narrator: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. This week, we’ll hear from pastor, speaker, and author DawnCheré Wilkerson. After walking through an eight-year journey of infertility, DawnCheré began to have a new understanding of what it means to trust God even when the answer is “not yet.” Now a mother of four, she encourages others to look for God’s presence not just in fulfilled promises, but in the slow, sacred work of waiting.

Later in the episode, we’ll hear from Erin Hicks Moon. Erin is a writer, podcaster, and the resident Bible scholar on the Faith Adjacent podcast. Known for creating thoughtful space for spiritual questions, Erin invites listeners to engage their faith with open hands and open hearts, believing that questions aren’t roadblocks but profound invitations.

Let’s begin with DawnCheré’s story.

DawnCheré: My name is DawnCheré Wilkerson, and I live in Miami, Florida. I’m originally from Shreveport, Louisiana—a big Cajun family, one of seven kids—and I’ve lived in Miami for almost twenty years now and pastor a local church with my husband Rich called VOUS Church. It’s a beautiful community—people of all different ages and backgrounds in the heart of our city. I love seeing God change lives, bringing people from isolation, bringing them into a family. 

Learning to Trust God When the Answer Was ‘Not Yet’

I’ve been married for nineteen years this year. For eight of the years, we walked through infertility. I’ll never forget the day I found out—it was my twenty-fifth birthday and I was headed to a routine doctor’s appointment. I had told my doctor that we wanted to start a family after several years of marriage, and I just thought I was going in to get this started and pretty soon we’d have babies. I remember the doctor saying, “DawnCheré, your blood test results came back. They’re irregular.” She handed me a business card and said, “I won’t be able to help you from here on out. Here’s an infertility specialist. They’ll take it from here.” 

We were working with doctors, and it can take a toll on your marriage. Anything can take a toll on your marriage if you place it at the center of your life. Let me explain what I mean. You can go online and you can find plenty of chat rooms for infertility. You can find plenty of conversations of people that mean well, but the obsession with having a child has actually taken first place in their life. 

Rich and I had to make a decision early on: Am I actually gonna live in the wait? Because all of life is waiting. I think that we feel the tension between hope and despair, but I found that relationship with God, faith in Jesus, makes all the difference. Rich and I had to make a decision early on that having a child was not going to be the center of our relationship, but serving God was gonna be the center. We decided we’re not gonna let what people say infertility season should look like dictate what our marriage looks like. Those eight years of waiting are some of the best years of our life. Looking back, His timing is perfect. It was in those eight years of infertility with my husband that I really came to the realization that waiting isn’t a season, waiting is life. 

“All of life is waiting. I think that we feel the tension between hope and despair, but I found that relationship with God, faith in Jesus, makes all the difference.” –  DawnCheré Wilkerson

My parents gave me a scripture when I was born, and it was Isaiah 40:31: “They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They’ll mount up with wings like eagles. They’ll run and not grow weary. They will walk and not faint.” It’s in the waiting that I discovered who God is.

I wouldn’t want to take one day back, and I mean that wholeheartedly, because the intimacy that you feel when you’re desperate for God, knowing that He’s close, knowing that He’s involved in every second, knowing that He’s orchestrating your life, there’s a confidence that we can hold on to. And when we find it in seasons of desperation, we don’t just find it for that moment, but we get to carry it for the rest of our life. 

“It’s in the waiting that I discovered who God is. The intimacy that you feel when you’re desperate for God, knowing that He’s close, knowing that He’s involved in every second, knowing that He’s orchestrating your life, there’s a confidence that we can hold on to. And when we find it in seasons of desperation, we don’t just find it for that moment, but we get to carry it for the rest of our life. ” – DawnCheré Wilkerson

The Soil of Silence and Seeds of Hope

There were moments in those eight years where I definitely felt like God was silent. I find that sometimes when we feel like God is silent, we can go to His Word because He’s always speaking in His Word.  

I started to work through Psalms, and it brought so much comfort to me knowing that David, a man after God’s own heart, walked with such honesty and transparency with God. And it gave me the freedom to do the same. So if you were to read my journals, there’d be days that I was full of confidence and full of peace, then there are other days where I’m writing, “God, I’m restless, I’m angry.” It’s that safety in God’s presence that made me know that He is close and that He cares. Even today with four kids, I’m facing new mountains, but God’s Word gives me that next step. It illuminates all of our paths. 

Writing has always been a creative outlet for me. It’s been a place where I felt safe, where I could express exactly how I felt, and where I could put pen to paper during the current page of my testimony because our testimonies are ever evolving. 

In those eight years of infertility, I came to a place where I discovered there is work in this wait. 

There’s soil for me to dig deep into. There are areas for me to grow, areas for me to prune, areas for me to be outstretched and generous with my life. And then, there’s also wonder in the wait. You think that you’re just trying to fast forward through a season, but it’s like, no, the glory of God is right here, right now. He wants to speak things to my heart that just make me stand in awe of His goodness and assure me that His eye is on me and that He wants to use me to bring His love to others. 

“In those eight years of infertility, I came to a place where I discovered there is work in this wait. There’s soil for me to dig deep into. There are areas for me to grow, areas for me to prune, areas for me to be outstretched and generous with my life.” –  DawnCheré Wilkerson

Waving to the Promise from Afar

The testimony of my life is not that God gave me a child. Yes, I celebrate all four of my kids as miracles. I thank God for their lives. But the real testimony is that God was with me in the middle of my wait. 

Like when you read the Bible—Hebrews is very clear. Abraham, Sarah, Rahab, Moses… Scripture tells us in Hebrews that they all died still believing in what they had not seen. So if these heroes of the faith, the matriarchs, the patriarchs of our faith, didn’t see all of the promise in this life, why do I think that I will? This is where we get to trust God, but know that this is not the end of the story. And then, I love Hebrews because The Message interpretation says, “They waved to their inheritance from afar.” In the middle of my journey of infertility, that Scripture leapt off the page and into my heart like I can’t even describe to you. It was a moment of revelation for my spirit that I so desperately needed, but I didn’t know that I needed it. I realized, God, even if I don’t see the promise in this life, I can wave. I can see it through the eyes of faith. 

“Hebrews is very clear. Abraham, Sarah, Rahab, Moses… Scripture tells us in Hebrews that they all died still believing in what they had not seen. So if these heroes of the faith, the matriarchs, the patriarchs of our faith, didn’t see all of the promise in this life, why do I think that I will? This is where we get to trust God, but know that this is not the end of the story.” – DawnCheré Wilkerson

I’m very, very grateful for Jesus Calling. I look at Sarah [Young] and her faith was like a slow burning fuse, almost like dynamite. You have that small fuse that is attached to this power, and as the fuse burns, often you can go, Is it even lit? It’s not big enough to warm my hand. It’s definitely not big enough to make any difference. But the end result of that fuse burning [is that it] can blast through mountains. 

Jesus Calling has made a huge impact in my life and in my family. My mom started to keep so many copies in our house, and she would give it to all of her friends and all of her family. I find that people that don’t know Jesus, when they read Jesus Calling, it makes an imprint in their soul. It draws them in. And I think that’s really what life is about—this long burning fuse is attached not to a seasonal outcome of the explosion of God’s faithfulness, but rather to the promise of eternity—that there’s a moment that everything is going to change and it will never be the same. 

“I think that’s really what life is about—this long burning fuse is attached not to a seasonal outcome of the explosion of God’s faithfulness, but rather to the promise of eternity.” – DawnCheré Wilkerson

Learning to Listen in the Waiting

God is waiting to speak to us. Life is so full of distractions. Even in the wait—we say we’re waiting, but we’re filling the time with a million different things that are really turning down the volume on the voice of God. I’m guilty of this. Even now, a lot of my focus in life is how to prune out distractions because I’m prone to pick up so many different things to fill the time while I’m waiting on God. I find that God is waiting to speak to us, and oftentimes, even in the waiting season, we’re not actually listening. 

“We say we’re waiting, but we’re filling the time with a million different things that are really turning down the volume on the voice of God. A lot of my focus in life is how to prune out distractions because I’m prone to pick up so many different things to fill the time while I’m waiting on God.” – DawnCheré Wilkerson

And so my prayer life was a desperation of creating quiet moments. Sometimes I would take a full day, get away, and just read the Scripture. Other times, it would be in the morning or in the evening where I was just pouring out my heart or journaling. I think we all pray differently. I don’t think there is a formula because it’s a relationship. We know that, but I do think in my forty years, I found how I best articulate my heart to God, and I think the safest place for me is my journals. There’s something about a pen and paper for me that lets me pray in a very focused way. I feel a freedom when I’m writing to let my heart pour out. I know for some people it can be going on walks. For other people, it can be being active. For others, it can be a specific room in their house where they pray. I think the important thing is finding the way that you connect with God personally and starting to develop that. It’s an opportunity for all of us to just, in the midst of the chaos and the daily schedules and the busyness of life, to take a moment to refocus. 

I’ll be reading a passage from Jesus Listens, September 15th:

Faithful God,

You have promised many blessings to those who wait for You: new strength, resurgence of hope, awareness of Your continual Presence. 

Waiting for You enables me to glorify You by living in deep dependence on You, ready to do Your will. I’ve discovered that living close to You makes my life less complicated and cluttered. Though the world around me is messy and confusing, I rejoice that You have overcome the world. Thank You for telling me these things, so that in You I may have Peace.

In Your wonderful Name, Jesus, 

Amen

Narrator: To learn more about DawnCheré Wilkerson, be sure to check out her new book, Slow Burn: The Work and Wonder of the Wait, at your favorite retailer.

Stay tuned to Erin Hicks Moon’s story after a brief message.

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The Jesus Calling Commemorative Edition

For over twenty years, readers have discovered the joy of spending time in the presence of the Savior with the much-loved daily devotions in Jesus Calling. 

Now, in the Jesus Calling commemorative edition, you’ll feel comforted by words of hope and encouragement, and be reassured of Jesus’ unending love through author Sarah Young’s words of gentle guidance that are rooted in Scripture. 

In this deluxe edition, you’ll find samples of Sarah’s original handwritten devotionals, twelve new devotions she penned before her passing, letters from Sarah to readers for each month of the year, and a touching tribute from Sarah’s daughter. 

Experience a deeper relationship with Jesus as you savor the presence of the One who understands you perfectly and loves you forever. Find the Jesus Calling commemorative edition today at your favorite retailer or get 30% off your purchase at www.faithgateway.com.

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Our next guest is Erin Hicks Moon, a writer, podcaster, and guide for those navigating the complex terrain of modern faith. As a co-host of the Faith Adjacent podcast, Erin explores the nuances of belief with equal parts honesty, humor, and intellectual curiosity—not to arrive at perfect answers, but to be present with God in the asking.

Erin Hicks Moon: My name is Erin H. Moon. I am a podcaster by day and an author by margin. I’m a host on the Faith Adjacent podcast where we try to understand the modern dynamics of faith through a commitment to uncomfortable honesty, authentic weirdness, and critical thinking. 

Growing up, I was pickled in the brine of Southern Baptist Evangelicalism in the nineties and early aughts. Church for us—there was never any, “Hey, a lot of different, very faithful people think really differently about this.” It was, “This is the way right here, and everyone else, to varying degrees, got it wrong, but we figured it out.” 

Stepping Outside the Sandbox

I wrote Bible studies for youth organizations and small Christian publishers for a really long time. I somewhat had to do it within the bounds of a certain vein of beliefs. We didn’t quote anyone outside of the agreed upon, fully vetted thinkers. We weren’t super interested in alternate ways of interpretation, which is fine, but it just meant that I really played in a small sandbox. 

Later, when I then came on as the resident Bible scholar on Faith Adjacent, suddenly I got to decide who I read and who I learned from. And there were so many perspectives and so many interesting ways that people were interpreting Scripture, understanding Scripture. 

I heard about Jesus Calling for the first time in a bakery in Birmingham, Alabama. There was a little bookshelf that had some books for sale, and Jesus Calling was one of them. I flipped through it, and I was like, This is incredible. What a gift that Sarah gave the world in walking through that daily process, not in a checklist way, but in a “how can I tune my heart to Jesus” kind of way.

Reading other theologians from different cultures, different perspectives, that really helped me see that my own perspective was not the default setting. I love a guide, and I really searched for that during my own faith exploration. Now, I’ve learned that that doesn’t really exist, but as I was going through my own, which I still am, I started reading a lot of research about the brain and faith and grief and anger and curiosity. As I was praying and attempting to listen to the Holy Spirit, reading church history and re-reading Scripture—stuff that I had known my whole life. But going back to the text, I really saw a scaffolding emerging for myself that was really helpful. 

There’s a freedom in making peace as you work with the Holy Spirit to set your own boundaries and rebuild and almost come back from… if we’re going to use the word deconstruction—which I know means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. But maybe what does it look like on the other side of that? What does reconstructing your faith look like? 

How Early Communities Show Us a Better Way

I think when we don’t explore other denominational traditions or even different branches of the church, I think we’re missing out. There are so many different perspectives and so many different interpretations and practices. It is so rich. And what we have done is we have siloed ourselves off, and I think that’s to our detriment. 

I think there are a lot of ways that faith communities can really bridge what we’re seeing as a generational gap between older generations and younger generations and reconnecting with some of those younger believers. I think one of those things is very simple. People can get great teaching in the age of the internet at the click of a button, right? They can hear some of the best sermons, they can hear some of the smartest scholars, but they need a community that cares for them and allows them to care for others. There’s a really heavy leaning on preaching and crafting sermons and getting people in line with exact “correct” theological beliefs, but I think there’s a disconnect between that and actually being pastored. I think you can do both things, but I think we’ve leaned heavily on one side. I think the question for us is, “Do people believe what we say because of what we do?” I think a lot of younger generations are seeing a disconnect between that, and they want to follow the fruit. We have a community of people who are questioners, they are doubters, they have curiosities, and a lot of them don’t have that type of community where they can be honest about those things offline. 

“There’s a really heavy leaning on preaching and crafting sermons and getting people in line with exact ‘correct’ theological beliefs, but I think there’s a disconnect between that and actually being pastored. Do people believe what we say because of what we do? I think a lot of younger generations are seeing a disconnect between that, and they want to follow the fruit.” – Erin Hicks Moon

I’m really interested in these ancient structures of life, learning about the symbolism in the temples and the tabernacles, learning the cultural context around when something was written or the life of Jesus. What I think that modern generations can learn from the ways that faith was practiced in those times is really through the way the community functioned. Your life was so tied to the life of the community. If you did not pull your weight, someone else was going to suffer. If you and these three women didn’t go get the water for the day, there was no water to be had that day. 

I think we often tend to over complicate things at times. The disciples—we don’t have any record of them arguing about atonement theory or transubstantiation—what we’re mostly left with is just go do the thing. Take care of the people. Tell them about Jesus. Let the Holy Spirit do the Holy Spirit’s work. I think we get really caught up in the minutia.​​ That’s fun to talk about, but I think as far as faith goes and the way faith was practiced, it was together, it was in community. And that was the lifeblood. 

“I think we often tend to over complicate things at times. The disciples—we don’t have any record of them arguing about atonement theory or transubstantiation—what we’re mostly left with is just go do the thing. Take care of the people. Tell them about Jesus. Let the Holy Spirit do the Holy Spirit’s work.” – Erin Hicks Moon

A Call for Generational Understanding

I think there is a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding between older people of faith and younger people of faith. I think things like music or worship style tend to be distractions, but they also tend to be kind of avatars for the way we talk past each other. 

I don’t particularly love modern worship music, and that’s okay. It doesn’t need to be for me. 

My daughter, who’s fifteen, she’s like, “If I have to hear another hymn, I’m going to lose my mind.” But we’re still doing the same thing. We’re still worshiping the same Jesus. We’re just going about it in different ways.

I think if we sat everyone down—and no group is a monolith, obviously—but I think if we lean in with a posture of curiosity, it’s one of the avenues through which we love our neighbor as ourselves. My daughter’s love of modern worship is not necessarily an indictment on my love of hymns. Any change in the process can be viewed as an indictment from the way we used to do it, and I don’t necessarily think that that has to be true. I think we want our kids and the people who come after us to have better tools and to learn more and to be more informed and to have a fuller faith. That’s what we want to pass on to them. 

“I think if we lean in with a posture of curiosity, it’s one of the avenues through which we love our neighbor as ourselves. I think we want our kids and the people who come after us to have better tools and to learn more and to be more informed and to have a fuller faith. That’s what we want to pass on to them.” – Erin Hicks Moon 

What Grows After Deconstruction 

When I’m working through something or I’m helping someone else navigate their spiritual questions, what I hope for them is that this will be an impetus for them to live in communication with God—whether that’s through prayer, talking with my kids, being with my husband, having a conversation with a stranger, or watching a sunrise… there are so many ways. I just see prayer as life with God, and I think there are so many ways to be with God. You don’t have to have everything perfectly figured out with God to talk to God, to be with God, and to look for God everywhere.  

“I just see prayer as life with God, and I think there are so many ways to be with God. You don’t have to have everything perfectly figured out with God to talk to God, to be with God, and to look for God everywhere.” – Erin Hicks Moon  

To anyone who is really navigating that process, what I want to share with you is that you have time. I think we feel this urgency, but you have time to work things out, you have space to work things out. I think another thing is that you don’t have to get everything settled in a perfect row of faith. This was hard for me, but the goal is not to be right. It’s not perfect and correct theology. The goal is being with Jesus and letting Jesus transform you. I think it’s very scary to have a certain set of beliefs your whole life, then when you start asking questions, that can feel like the rug just gets pulled out from under you. People are very nervous to pull the thread because what if the whole sweater comes unraveled? I would tell you not to be afraid or to try to push past the fear of burning something down, like your faith, because ash is fertilizer and good things will grow again. 

“The goal is being with Jesus and letting Jesus transform you. I would tell you not to be afraid or to try to push past the fear of burning something down, like your faith, because ash is fertilizer and good things will grow again.” – Erin Hicks Moon 

Narrator: To learn more about Erin, please visit www.erinhmoon.com, and be sure to check out her new book, I’ve Got Questions: The Spiritual Practice of Having It Out With God, at your favorite retailer.

If you’d like to hear more stories about growing closer to God in times of uncertainty, check out our interview with Austin and Marideth Telenko.

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Next week: Benjamin Hall

Next time on the Jesus Calling Podcast, we’ll hear from longtime war correspondent and journalist Benjamin Hall. Benjamin shares his remarkable recovery story after surviving a deadly Russian missile attack in Ukraine, and what he’s learned about the power of resilience. 

Benjamin Hall: No matter how hard you are hit or whether you are knocked down, you can always, always pick yourself back up, and you will be stronger because of it. If you can channel your feelings, if you can talk to God, if you can find the strength you need, you can get through absolutely anything.