Tauren Wells: The first thing Jesus tells everyone is not how to be holy, not how to be reputable, not how to fulfill the law. The first word He says is happy. And so how do we access whatever that thing is [that] Jesus was talking about? 

A Counter-Cultural Guide to Joy: Tauren Wells & Out of Eden – Episode #461

Narrator: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. This week, we’ll hear from Tauren Wells, acclaimed recording artist and lead pastor of Church of Whitestone in Austin, Texas. Raised in Battle Creek, Michigan, Tauren’s early life was steeped in music and shaped by his experiences at a small church and the guidance of a caring youth pastor. In this conversation, Tauren reflects on the things that can steal our focus, the quiet dangers of success, and what it means to live a truly joyful life.

Later in the episode, we’ll hear from Out of Eden, the ground-breaking sister trio who burst onto the scene in the nineties and helped redefine contemporary Christian music. From their early beginnings singing harmonies and choreographing dances in their living room to performing on big stages in nationwide tours, they navigated the pitfalls of growing up in the spotlight with grace beyond their years. Now, thirty years later, they’re reuniting their voices to offer hope to a new generation.

Let’s begin with Tauren’s story.

Tauren Wells: I’m Tauren Wells. I am a husband to Lorna. We’ve been married for fourteen years, and we’ve got four little boys to prove it—Kanaan, Lawson, Navy, and Banner. I’ve had the privilege of touring around the world, playing songs for people. And recently, as of last year, my wife, our boys, and I planted a brand new life-giving church in Austin, Texas, where we currently reside called Church of Whitestone. That has been quite an adventure, to say the least, but that’s where we’re at.

I grew up in “The Mitten”—Battle Creek, Michigan, [known as] Cereal City, USA. I always say that I could walk out my front door in the early years of my life growing up and smell Fruity Pebbles in the air. My dad was a phenomenal drummer, and he had everything in our house—drums, saxophone, guitar, keyboards. We always had people at our house, whether they were singing, playing instruments, or rapping, so I was exposed to a lot of different musical tastes.

My parents, unfortunately, did get a divorce when I was young. My dad was on a spiritual journey after the divorce and trying to find which way was up, and we ended up walking into the back of a little Pentecostal church when I was about nine years old. I fell in love with Jesus, and fell in love with the local church.

I was involved in everything you could be involved in. My youth pastor actually worked at my high school. I didn’t realize the important role he would play in my life—from encouraging me to learn to play an instrument to helping me develop a love for books that led me to Bible college. I went to ministry school, got out of Bible college, started a band, started traveling, and then signed as a solo artist. 

A Counter-Cultural Guide to Joy

I think that for me personally, the journey to joy has been unintentional. I asked my wife not too long ago, “Who is the most joyful person you know?” She was like, “I think you’re the most joyful person that I know.” But she said that it’s not really because of my personality or my temperament, it’s more about the perspective. At some point, you have to choose, Am I gonna live my life based on a feeling or feelings, or am I going to live my life toward a focus? And that’s the defining factor for people who live with joy.

It’s not often the really, really, really, really devastating things throw us off track. It’s the little distractions and the details that cause our focus to shift. I’ve seen that in my own life, even in the good. I think sometimes good things can be the greatest thieves of joy. There can become so much pressure around success of always elevating, always trying to find the next good thing, [and it] sometimes leaves our soul in a state of despair, because we’ve been focusing on the wrong things, as opposed to the way that Jesus unlocks joy for us. It’s not through hungering and thirsting for career, promotion, position, affluence, affirmation. It’s actually developing a taste and an appetite for righteousness, for the things of God, for the ways of God, which are usually slow, uncomfortable, and difficult at times to wrap our minds and our hearts around. It’s this way that Jesus introduces us to live in Matthew 5 that was counter-cultural then. It’s even more so, perhaps, countercultural now. Jesus is giving us permission to mourn. He’s saying, “Happy are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. [Matthew 5:4]” We hear these things as platitudes, perhaps in religious circles, but we never pull them into the reality of our lives.  

“It’s not often the really devastating things throw us off track. It’s the little distractions and the details that cause our focus to shift. There can be so much pressure around success of always elevating, always trying to find the next good thing, [and it] sometimes leaves our soul in a state of despair, because we’ve been focusing on the wrong things, as opposed to the way that Jesus unlocks joy for us.” – Tauren Wells

That culminated for me one afternoon. I was at my house and had been married for a long time with three kids at the time. I was looking at these plaques that people give us for songs. We’ve got family coming over to celebrate my nomination for an award that’s going to be on TV. And I go over to the piano, and I thought, Surrounded by all this goodness and all of these achievements and the blessings of family and all of this stuff, I’m going to write a song about joy. I’m gonna write the most encouraging, happy song. I start playing these melancholy chords and it catches me off guard and I start singing, “You could have it all. You could have the whole world at your feet, every little thing you think you need, and still feel empty. You could have it all, you could have the best this life can bring, living everybody else’s dream, and still feel empty.” 

And I thought, Is this true? Do I really feel empty in this moment surrounded by so much? And what I realized was sometimes I have a really hard time differentiating doing things for God and doing things with God. And I think that’s when our heart can be thrown upside down and all we ever feel is anxiety, fear, doubt, and despair, because we flip the beauty of the reality that we get to do life with God, and there is a relentless joy that flows from being intentionally aware of His presence.

“Sometimes I have a really hard time differentiating doing things for God and doing things with God. And I think that’s when our heart can be thrown upside down and all we ever feel is anxiety, fear, doubt, and despair, because we flip the beauty of the reality that we get to do life with God, and there is a relentless joy that flows from being intentionally aware of His presence.” – Tauren Wells

This is what lit me up enough to go through the grueling process of writing this book, Joy Bomb, because I was set on fire by this idea. Jesus preached the most important message on joy, and it was the first thing that He decided to talk about. How important to the heart of God must our happiness be just based on the priority of the message? The last word of the Old Testament is “curse.” The first word that Jesus says when He steps out on that hillside for His first recorded sermon ever is “blessed.” The symmetry in that alone is so beautiful. 

“Jesus preached the most important message on joy, and it was the first thing that He decided to talk about. How important to the heart of God must our happiness be just based on the priority of the message?” – Tauren Wells

Aramis is the name of the hill that Jesus preached this message on. I looked it up, and aramis means desolate and isolated. I think He very intentionally chose a barren topography to illustrate the theology of joy. Happiness and joy have nothing to do with what’s happening around you; it has everything to do with what is happening inside of you. He’s pointing us to our spirit, so He’s saying your happiness comes from the degree in which you delight in the Lordship of Christ. And the truth is, without the Cross, we don’t have the church. Restoring that sense of gratitude for the ultimate price that was paid to unlock our freedom is so central to all of our lives as believers. And so, I just wanted to have a song of pure gratitude, thanking God for sending His only Son to redeem our lives, and I wanted to capture the humanity of that moment, too.

“Happiness and joy have nothing to do with what’s happening around you; it has everything to do with what is happening inside of you. Restoring that sense of gratitude for the ultimate price that was paid to unlock our freedom is so central to all of our lives as believers.” – Tauren Wells

The Joy of Simply Sitting With God

I did a practice recently that my counselor encouraged me to do. It was just to sit for ten minutes with God, not working on anything, just with Him. One of the questions my counselor asked me afterwards was, “How did you perceive God in that moment?” And I was like, “Well, there’s two answers—the view that I know I should have is God lovingly looking at me like I look at my kids. And then the other one was like God who’s pacing, busy, and kind of glances over at me and says, ‘Glad you finally showed up. We can get to work now.’” I think a lot of us, if we think about it, have these distorted views of who God actually is. 

I feel like the work of Jesus Calling gives us a beautiful picture of a loving Father who’s seated at the table with us, sharing His heart toward us, gracefully correcting us, and redirecting our thoughts and our ambitions.  

I’ve been working on just being with Him. When I recounted the moment with my counselor, I stepped into that moment with zero expectations. God, the joy is just being with You. And oh, what joy that is.

Narrator: To learn more about Tauren Wells, visit www.taurenwells.com, and be sure to check out his new book, Joy Bomb: Unleash Jesus’s Explosive Joy for an Extraordinary Life, at your favorite retailer.

Stay tuned to Out of Eden’s story after a brief message.

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Our next guests are the talented sisters of Out of Eden. Their musical gifts were first recognized by their parents and later by key figures in the music industry, propelling them into the spotlight. From world tours to connecting with fans, they share with us navigating the highs and challenges of fame—while staying grounded in their faith.

Lisa: Hey everybody, I’m Lisa Nicole, the oldest sister in Out of Eden. 

Andrea: Hi, my name is Andrea, and I’m the middle sister in Out of Eden. 

Danielle: I am Danielle, and I’m bringing up the rear, the youngest—but not forgotten—member of Out of Eden. 

From an Early Age Destined for the Stage

Growing up, I remember my sisters and I singing at all times. Our sister Lisa would just come to us and say, “Hey, I have a melody I want you to try. Andrea, Danielle, why don’t you do this harmony?” She would assign us our parts from the youngest age I can remember. And then Andrea and I would make a few dance moves to go with whatever song Lisa had written. That was truly the start of our musical journey.

After a couple of years of that, our mother and stepdad started to see the potential in us to really make this a career. She would introduce us to anybody who would listen. When I was about nine years old, my mom found out that in Nashville, Tennessee, the record labels were looking for a group that could be the Christian New Kids On The Block. She decided, That’s my kids. So she got a U-Haul truck, and moved us to Nashville. 

Lisa: We met a lady there named Lisa Jordan, who connected us with some of the early contemporary Christian artists, and that’s how we met dc Talk—we were rehearsing, and they were rehearsing. 

They circled back to us and said, “You know, we want to sign Out of Eden.” And our mom, being a savvy business woman, was like, “Okay, well, you can sign them if you take them on the road with dc Talk.” So our first tour ever was a sixty-five city nationwide arena tour with dc Talk and Audio Adrenaline.

Andrea: When we first started, we had a name that reflected the fact that we were three sisters. It sort of alluded to the Trinity, but it wasn’t very catchy. So as we were recording and writing with TobyMac, we were trying to brainstorm, and we found a scripture in Genesis 2:10 that says, “A river flows out of Eden to water the garden.” Once we read that, we knew that was our mission. We grew up in the church, we’ve always been plugged into the Word of God, and we really wanted to use that to minister to those who would be listening to our music.

“We found a scripture in Genesis 2:10 that says, ‘A river flows out of Eden to water the garden.’ Once we read that, we knew that was our mission. We grew up in the church, we’ve always been plugged into the Word of God, and we really wanted to use that to minister to those who would be listening to our music.” – Andrea Kimmey-Baca

Lisa: The experience of walking into a record label, getting signed, having no fan base, nobody knows who you are, and then being kind of thrust in front of the world… we were totally unprepared for that level of touring. dc Talk had the tour bus and we had a 1975 Chevy van that still had carpet on the walls and an eight track. We didn’t know anything about going out, signing autographs, and being social. Most of us are pretty introverted, so it’d be time to sign autographs, and we’d just huddle up and talk with each other, terrified. But it was an incredible start. 

We were all learning at the same time—trying to figure out what our sound was, trying to figure out how to break into the contemporary Christian sound. And we kind of had to prove ourselves. I think that we got there, but I do think that was a struggle just to kind of be accepted amongst our peers and in the mainstream arena. 

Becoming Overnight Role Models to Fans

I just don’t think you can prepare yourself as teenagers to suddenly be put in the role model position and to have people looking up to you. People would write us—or we were handing out our phone number—and I’m like, What were we thinking? We literally would give people our phone number. We’d do altar calls, and people would come to know Jesus. We didn’t really understand, I think at that time, how to direct people into a local church context where they could grow in their faith and become a disciple of Jesus. We were just like, Oh gosh, well, I guess it’s on me. It’s on Andrea. It’s on Danielle. So, people would call us with these really serious issues, and we’re thirteen, fifteen, and eighteen trying to counsel people. Thank God for His grace and mercy. 

“I just don’t think you can prepare yourself as teenagers to suddenly be put in the role model position and to have people looking up to you. – Lisa Kimmey

Danielle: I think one of the things we really had going for us when we got started was a knowledge of the Word of God and a love for people. That was set in stone. When people started to love us back, it was a little bit overwhelming. I know for me, being so young and experiencing that, it feels like you don’t know anything else, like it becomes your whole life, your whole being, and we’ve seen it with so many people. People that are thrust into the spotlight at a young age and they don’t always thrive. I really do believe that because of our grounding in the Word of God and having a community of believers surrounding us, that we were able to ride the harder waves and talk out the things that were more confusing to us. 

“I really do believe that because of our grounding in the Word of God and having a community of believers surrounding us, that we were able to ride the harder waves and talk out the things that were more confusing to us.” – Danielle Kimmey 

We had a wonderful man named Michael Guido who was a tour pastor for dc Talk, and he really taught us about reflecting all glory to God and not ourselves. That took a huge weight off of us to say, “We’re here and we’re gonna do our very best, but at the end of the day, this is all about glorifying God. We’re not going to allow the praise to change us or to affect us in a negative way.”

Three Voices Unite After Thirty Years

When we retired in 2007, we just were like, Okay, that’s it, goodbye. Someone actually let us know on Instagram that it was our thirty year anniversary. And first of all, that’s impossible because clearly, I can’t be thirty yet, but our music is, and we think that’s a big deal. We just wanted to honor that legacy and then honor the fans who kept our name and our legacy and our music alive. This EP [Extended Play] is definitely a thank you to our fans.

“We just wanted to honor that legacy and then honor the fans who kept our name and our legacy and our music alive.” – Danielle Kimmey 

Andrea: I’m excited about this project, because I feel like we have grown up and we have a lot to say and a lot of inspiration for our age group now. They’re around the same age as we are, and they have the struggles that we have as moms, working women, anyone who is going through these current times. We need hope, we need joy. 

Lisa: Our hope is just to remix some songs and kind of like reimagine some of our biggest songs. 

“Lovely Day” really is what put us on the map. I’m pretty sure it was the first single in Christian music, the first single available for purchase, which is cool. It came out on a cassette and a CD, I think, which is crazy.

And so for us, seeing as it came out thirty years ago, it just seemed like the perfect song to kind of revisit. But we wanted to think like, How would we do this song if it came out in 2025? It was a lot of fun just to be in the studio. It was so different because we had our kids in there in the studio with us, and Danielle’s kids are like singing along, and it’s just amazing—just like the blessing and the legacy that God has given us. 

Andrea: Throughout our career, I feel like we had a lot of success, but we also had a lot of struggles. One instance in particular that I can remember is [when] we were embarking on a tour, and then at the last minute, it got canceled. And so, we were thinking, How are we gonna pay our bills, because this big tour that we were expecting to go on is no longer happening? We not only employed ourselves, but we employed band members, dancers, tour managers, things like that. And I just remember that night, we were on a tour bus on our knees, on our faces before God, just praying and asking Him, “Why is this happening?” And also, “What do You want us to learn from this and how can we move forward?” And I remember that God really provided for us, and that is just one instance of many where we were constantly on our knees before God asking Him for provision, asking Him for direction, asking Him to use us, and He always did. He always came through. 

Lisa: I think of the power of prayer also just with God helping us kind of realign our purpose. We were in an industry that wasn’t really built for our style of music. I think that presented a lot of challenges for us, and gave us the opportunity to not only overcome those challenges, but also have the right heart posture. 

“We were in an industry that wasn’t really built for our style of music. I think that presented a lot of challenges for us, and gave us the opportunity to not only overcome those challenges, but also have the right heart posture.” – Lisa Kimmey 

I remember one time we were up for a couple of Dove Awards and we had gone to the award show. We were all excited, but we didn’t win, and we felt a little slighted. We were like, Wait, what? I called my pastor, and I’m in tears just crying, and I’m just like, “This is just ridiculous. Our album was bigger. Our song was bigger. I don’t get it.” And he says, “Okay.” And then he says, “Well, is that what you’re doing it for?” And I was like, “What?” And he said, “Is that what you’re doing it for—like the awards and stuff?” And I was like, “No, of course not.” And he was like, “Okay, then whatever.” And it was like this moment of tough love, but it really was like a wake-up call because no, actually, that’s not what we’re doing it for. It really pushed us to find that peace in the Lord that our purpose is found in God. 

Danielle: A lot of artists would get really spiritually excited and go on tour, and then by the time the tour ended, [they] would be so dry spiritually and kind of just crawling back home. It was difficult. But I remember in 2005, I believe it was, someone gave us each a copy of Jesus Calling. It was so great because then we could go on tour and still have that daily prayer moment, that daily devotional moment. It did make a marked difference in our spiritual lives to be able to just spend time with the Father in that way. And it [would] be fresh every day, and there’s something new that you’re thinking through and praying through, it really helped us to not let the waters run dry.  

We’ll be reading a passage from Jesus Listens, January 3rd:

Compassionate Lord,

You tell me in Your Word: “I have loved you with an everlasting Love. 

I have drawn you with loving-kindness.”

Andrea: 

This means that You knew me and loved me before time began! 

Yet for years I swam around in a sea of meaninglessness—searching for Love, 

hoping for Hope. All that time, You were pursuing me, ready to embrace me in Your compassionate arms.

Lisa:

You sang me a Love song whose beginning and end are veiled in eternity. You infused meaning into my mind and harmony into my heart. I want to join You in singing Your song. Please use my voice in whatever way You will, as You call people out of darkness into Your marvelous Light.

In Your brilliant Name, Jesus, 

Amen

Narrator: To learn more about Out of Eden, check out their new EP, Lovely Day 3.0, coming this year.

If you‘d like to hear more stories about discovering your true identity, check out our interview with Rachael Lampa.

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Next week: Jennifer Tucker

Next time on the Jesus Calling Podcast, we will hear from author and illustrator Jennifer Tucker, who shares how she learned to manage anxiety while also seeking mental health help for her young daughter.

Jennifer Tucker: We don’t need to feel shame when we’re anxious. If we’re struggling with depression or struggling with intrusive thoughts, God loves us. His love is bigger than we can imagine, and He’s inviting us to come to Him. Let Him wrap us in His arms and remind us that He’s right here with us through it all.